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well I dont see why the whole thing would have to come out if the floor is solid. Looking thru the hole in the mount with a flashlight the upper floor looks to still have paint on it! Its just the unibody "box" or channel that is rusted out.

The Lost Cutlass: My First Car It was 2009 and I was 15 going on 16 and searching for my first vehicle. My parents said I could pick any vehicle as long as it wasn’t too old. One day while riding through town I spotted a car that just struck a chord with me. It was Aqua Blue, two door and had mini quad headlights. I knew nothing about vehicles so I tried to find out what that car was. It was a 1993 Cutlass Supreme. I knew then, that’s the car I want. I searched Craigslist for months and never found one that was in good shape. I began to lose hope at finding one and settled for a Grand Prix. We arrived at the second hand dealer to inspect the Grand Prix and the salesman says “Sorry folks, it sold this morning.” We drove all the way to the city for nothing. On our way home, I searched Craigslist again and came across a 1991 red two door Cutlass Supreme. We were not very far from it since we were in the city so we crossed the Mighty Mississippi and headed into Illinois. It belonged to a old woman who recently passed, 95k miles on the clock. We looked it over and It was in decent shape for being 18 years old. I wasn’t thrilled about it. It didn’t have the quad head lights, wasn’t the blue I liked and it had this digital cluster that was not my taste. I was tired looking at cars and bought it on the spot. Let me sum up the next few years, I FELL IN LOVE WITH THAT CAR!! Cutlass Charlie, I named it. I graduated high school still driving Charlie and she was starting to show her age and the repairs kept getting costly. My parents offered to buy me another vehicle as a graduation gift. I gladly except the offer. I ask to keep Charlie as a project car, not wanting to give her up. My dad says “No, it’s got to go.” I sadly put a For Sale sign in the window of my car. A man stopped by my house and said he was looking for a car for his son,who is turning 16. He looked Charlie over and wanted to buy it. With a heavy heart I take one more drive around town and remove my license plate. Before I let the car go I take the owners manual and all the papers as a keepsake. Vowing I will find the car again...someday A few years later, I was heading to a construction site to help my dad with a job. Off to the right of the road I see sitting in tall grass Charlie with a for sale sign in the window. My heart started pounding but I was a broke college kid and couldn’t afford to buy it back. The next day I drove by to see the car and It’s gone. One day, a few month later, I was driving through town and pass by our local funeral home and in the parking lot was Charlie. I’m wondering who the new owner is. The next week, it’s sitting in the same spot at the funeral home. A few more weeks later I see it again at the funeral home. I’m starting to feel bad for the owner. Every one they know is dying! One day I was sitting at a stop light and coming down the road is Charlie. Finally, I’ll get to see the owner I thought. The car drove by and to my shock it’s a local Catholic priest, Father Ted. No wonder it was at the funeral home all the time. I got a full time job and a little bit of extra money just burning a hole in my pocket. I miss Charlie so much I began my search for another one. If I can’t have my original car I want one exactly like it but I ended up falling in love with a 90 CS Convertible, Rocket I named it. In October ‘17 I bring home the convertible and begin working on it. I returned home from the auto parts store when my mom asks me if I had heard the news. “What news?” I said “Father Ted passed away”, showing me the headline on Facebook. I hated to hear that. He was a family friend and well respected member of the community but in the back of my mind I thought where is the car? In January of ‘18 , I was asked to come work for our local Assessors office doing some real estate work. I eventually get moved to personal property doing data entry for vehicle tax values. One morning my co worker was showing me how to add and take off vehicles in the computer and the functions of the Missouri DMV website. The Mo DMV website has every vehicle registered In the state of Missouri listed by VIN. Out of curiosity I looked into older tax records just to see if the VIN for my car would still be on file. After a few minutes of searching I finally found the VIN. I immediately ran it through the MO data base hoping it was still registered to somebody. Watching the screen load felt like forever. It was still registered to Father Ted but next to his name was a Transfer on Death, a woman named Bea. As the months went on I searched the county trying to find Bea. I wanted to know what had become of my CS after all these years. Everyone I asked knew her but they didn’t know where she lived or knew how to contact her. February 12, 2019: The mail had arrived at the office and it was all personal property tax forms. I began sifting through the large tote and select few at a time to start working. I grab the next form to input into the computer and it is Beas form WITH HER ADDRESS! I finally knew where to find her. I immediately typed it into google maps and she lived only 5 miles out side of town. After work I jumped In my car and set out for her house. After taking a winding road out of town I turned on a old forgotten gravel road that was lined with rusty barbed wire and overgrown weeds. I headed down the road and out from behind a tree as I rounded a corner appeared my CS; sitting alone under a pine tree covered in Sap and mold with flat tires, peeling clear coat, foged headlights and no license plate. I stopped the car and stared in awe. I finally found it! The memories started to flood and seeing the damage that time had done made me angry and sad. Then the question arose, was it for sale? I wasn’t a broke college kid anymore. The next morning at work I wrote a letter to Bea asking the question if she would want to sell it. The worst she could say is no. Two days went by and my phone rang and I didn’t recognize the number. I picked up the phone “Hello” “Hello, this is Bea, I got your letter and I have a few questions before we go any further” I could tell her guard was up and she was suspicious. I explained to her who I was and we made some family connections and small talk. After a few minutes on the phone she became more comfortable with me and freed up. “I’m sorry to badger you” she said “I’ve been In law enforcement for 30 years and now a days you can’t be too careful with people” “I understand, do you know anything about the car and it’s condition?” I asked She let out a big sign and said “Well...not really, Father Ted and I were friends for 20 years. I found the car on the side of the road. He was looking for a car to just drive around town. I’ve never driven it. He started to get sick and he didn’t want to fool with the car anymore so he was going to take it to a junk yard. I convinced him to not do that. I thought it was a cute and neat looking car and I didn’t want to see it scrapped. I just got it because I was the Transfer on Death. I have no plans for it. I just didn’t want to see a perfectly good car get scrapped. If you want to buy it I’ll sell it to you but I would like a fair price. “I understand, that’s ok with me!” I said. We chatted some more and she said “I will get in touch with you later, my brother passed away. I just wanted to call and touch base since I got your letter. Give me a couple weeks to get some family things worked out and I’ll call you again.”I gave her my condolences and said to take all the time she needed. I wasn’t in a hurry. I hung up the phone smiling, knowing my foot was in the door. Summer was in full swing and I had not heard from Bea. I wanted to call her but with a death in the family you never know how a person is doing and I didn’t want to badger her. I got the courage to call her again but there was no answer. The next day also no answer. I was getting concerned. Finally one day at work I get a phone call. “Hello, this is Bea. I’m so sorry I missed your call. My sister passed away a few weeks ago and I’ve been busy with my family” I held the phone speechless. I felt terrible calling her. “I’m so sorry” I said “I didn’t mean to bother you. I just wanted to let you know that I was still interested in the car since we haven’t talked in a while.” “Oh yes, I remembered.” She said” I’ve just had a lot going on. I know you want your car back and as far as I’m concerned it’s yours and I’ll sell it to you. Just give a couple weeks. I have the title and have to have it corrected to my name first” “That’s fine” I said “I feel terrible for calling you now, I had no idea. I’m so sorry” “ thank you” she said in a trembling voice. “I feel bad for you though too. I know you want this car and I’ve had all this stuff happen to me and I know you’re eager.” I told her it’s just car and I’m in no hurry to get it. When ever it’s a good time just call. As the air began to cool and the leaves change I began to grow more anxious. I had found the car 7 months ago and still had not seen the car up close,only from a distance. Bea and I exchanged phone calls from time to time just to touch base and talk. She said she was searching for the title but couldn’t remember where she put it. I wasn’t worried about the car. It was behind a locked gate on her private property. One afternoon I was out and about and decided to drive by the car just to gawk. I headed down the road and I began to panic upon seeing the car. There was a dent in the door and the driver window was shattered! I screamed inside! How long had it been busted out! It wasn’t the last time I saw it! Who did this? Some of the interior pieces are hard to find and where I live there isn’t a W body in the junk yard for miles! I got home and immediately call Bea. She answered. “Hi Bea, I went and looked at the car today and I noticed the window was busted out.” She said “You know I thought I noticed Somethin was different the other day.” “With the window broke, if possible, I would like to get it out of there as soon as I can or at least put something over the window.” I consernly explained. “I know, I know” she said. “I know you want the car and I’m just too sick right now to meet with you. I’m trying my best and I know you’re worried but ,if you want,the gate is unlocked. I don’t mind if you go and look at it and put something over the window.” The window had been broken I’m guessing for close to a month. I was nervous. It had been hot and rainy the whole time. I just new the interior would have some damage. After work one evening, with her blessing, I grabbed my tool box and the battery out of the convertible and headed to check it out. As I headed down the long barbed wire lined gravel road the butterflies in my stomach began to fly and hundreds of memories began slowing resurfacing. I parked next to the gate, got out of the car, and unwound the rusty chain. Bea told me she didn’t live in the house the car sits at. I walked into the yard surrounded by vehicles just sitting in the tall grass with flat tires and expired plates. There were Jeeps, Tauruses, Sables and utility vans scattered about but sitting in the corner of the fence, parked next to a 88 Blazer, under a pine tree, rested my car, Cutlass Charlie I named it. suddenly every detail of my teen years became clear and car seemed to speak to me in a sickly tired voice, “Hello friend.” A lump began to gather in my throat seeing the damage that time had done. The car had a zombie like appearance with the fogged headlights, peeling clear coat and caked on dirt. I sat down my things and opened the door. Spider webs woven like streamers began to tear away while the rest of the shattered glass fell to the ground revealing a dusty, dirty, cat hair filled cabin. Besides the dash being slightly curled from the summer sun, the interior was intact down to the cassette player with the keys in the ignition. I reached down to open the hood and and it unlatched with a load squeaky moan. I lifted the hood to a oily and dirty 3.1. Once again to my surprise everything was intact. I put the convertible battery in to see what worked and what didn’t. I turned the key and the UB3 dash lit up immediately showing 122k miles. The passenger power window rolled down flawlessly with out any tired noise and the glass was churning in the driver door. The power locks snapped up and down and the blower motor churned out a musty smell form the vent system. I flicked on the lights and the head and tail lights shined through the dirt. Charlie was alive but barely. I popped the trunk to reveal a swamp. Pine needles had clogged the channels and water filled the trunk. I left that day knowing It was a race against time to get the car. I taped a bag over the window and left. It was a week before Thanksgiving and Bea called to talk. She was very ill and in and out of the hospital. “Well, have you thought of a price?” She said. “I have, I’ll offer you $400. It very rough” I said. “Oh my gosh” she gasp. “That’s what I was thinking,$400” So we agreed, $400. Winter was approaching and I told her we should just wait till spring. I didn’t have an indoor place to work on the car and I kept driving by periodically to check on it Over the next few months I combed local junk yards searching for parts but they were few and far between. I did manage to find the window. More waiting then, the day came; August 29, 2020: It was hot, cloudy and humid. I finally got to meet Bea and take Charlie home. We did our paper work and I grabbed a small bowl to scoop out the water in the trunk. The water was brown and muddy but submerged were the original jack and tools, starting to rust. The tow truck arrived and he began hooking the car up. With a moan, the car slowly came out from the grave onto the roll back. “You know, I’m a MOPAR guy but, I always did think these cars were neat when they first came out” said the tow truck driver. “This was my first car.” I said. “No shit, that’s awesome you found it. And it was still local too!” We loaded the car and headed home. As I drove away, Charlie behind me, I saw Bea standing on her porch watching the car leave just as I had done eight years prior. Only, she was saying good bye to a piece of her friend, Father Ted; not just a car. At home we unloaded the car and the rain began to fall. I taped more bags over the window to keep the water out. Seeing the car in the driveway was a time warp. All the memories came flooding back again. I felt as if I should say “welcome home, it’s ok now” It had finally hit me. I set out to find Charlie five years ago and here she was. Let me sum up, I FELL IN LOVE WITH THAT CAR...again.

Yes they are solid but the rocker attached to it is toast i might just drive it up on ramps because I have to align the wheel as well when making the ta mount. I think im gonna make some new rockers & dog leg area for it too while im under there. Is it easier to just weld and bolt a thick plate into the floor and put another plate on the top and then bolt a 2nd gen mount into that or is it easier to make all custom.

Great work! Process I know SUCKS but it's done now, and you got to replace a bunch of other parts that it needed and made those atleast easier to change!

I mean its like any corrosion related failure, its good till its not. Can't actually say it might be good till you hit a pothole wrong and then its game over. Might go 2 years might go 2 weeks.

that’s totally fair. And I totally get the desire and challenge and that being worth it alone!! Not sure I’ll tackle it but I think it’s awesome it can be done and with the 5 speed too!

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I don't get online as much these days. Anyway, that question is hard for me to answer because I can't comment to the expense and value aspect as I just wanted to always do the LS4 swap. I didn't have any real budget or horsepower goal in mind. I simply wanted to do it to prove to myself that I could. If someone is going for straight power vs cost, it would probably be cheapest to turbo a 3800, and blow the LS4 away. But for me, yes, it was 'worth' it to just do it and have it work.

Dang, its a been a spell. I'm sorry I havn't checked back in for some time. Anyway, I got the the Monte out to a few car shows last summer. I live in a rural area, so not many eyes and ears for modern cars. I was largely ignored but I don't care. The few people genuinely interested were great to talk to and showed sincere interest, so thats nice. Anyway, some pics and videos from last year. Yes, the vette covers are a cheeky joke, mostly. I figured if anyone else can do it for their LS (Vortec) swapped classic or hot rod, why can't I?

Wow! I've been gone for ages and I missed this! Looking good! That's a crazy amount of work you did but it turned out really well!

A little more clean up has been done. I need to order another round of terminals to crimp one of the fan plugs, and some others for the right electrical buss (fuse box), as well as the PCM terminals. I also need to either modify the throttle and cruise cables or get different ones, as they are overall too long (not a big deal), but more importantly, the throttle end is too short to attach properly. Also also, I'm debating retaining the EVAP function. I know I don't have to, but it doesn't hurt to have and helps to avoid having transient gas fumes venting all the time. Thoughts?

This is actually after I've consolidated all the LS4 and Z34 wiring. There are no extra wires left in this picture. It really looks worse than it is. Theres really only a few main bundles to sort through, otherwise the rest are categorized based on component/ sensor, etc. with labels at the PCM end so I can keep track of everything. The foreground bundle is the original Z34 front end harness that has the battery cable, ground cable(s), fan wiring, and any accessories on the drivers side of the engine bay, so it'll be returned back to the bottom of the radiator support. I had to take it apart to rid it of the old 4T65 wiring and some other bits.

I told Bea I would take her for a ride in it when it was road worthy again. Like I said, she never drove it. It only has 121K miles. It makes me mad to see it neglected like this. When I sold it it was running, driving, clean and the paint was still good! Now look! I am excited to fix it up though. I learned a lot about these cars by working on my '90 convertible and making friends on the forum. Jiggity76 had been a huge help, I cant thank him enough!

the aluminum oil pan will work with the Wbody "horseshoe" motormount bracket if you just grind two notches in it near the two bottom edges of the pan...at most your gonna grind a 1/4inch deep notch if the trans fluid looks fine that trans is probably good especially if the motor blew apart btw get used to pulling the filter and dumping it into a clean container in the sunlight and look for clitter glitter in it if its bad

Bumping this old thread yet again, rather than start a new one! I finally found an engine and trans at my local junkyard. It turned out to be no good (details in my build thread: Quaraxkad's 92 Cutlass L67 Swap finally begins!). So I am taking this engine and trans back to the junkyard for a refund. But, if I were to take off the w-body specific mounts, could I widen my search for a donor to include the Bonneville SSEi, Impala SS, Monte Carlo SS, etc? We had mentioned the difference with non w-body engines earlier in this thread, but I want to confirm all of the different parts and see if it's possible/feasible/worth the effort. If I've got the mounts and I'm now able to use *any* L67 as a donor, it should take me a whole lot less than the 6 months it took to find the first one.

While i do not intend to take away from tge OP i was putting the final touches on my swap and came upon a slight problem 1st gen swaps will find usefull. 94 cutlass, 98 regal motor, 98 monte carlo harness. What do i do for rad fans? The 98 monte harness has one similiar fan plug as the regal butnot exact and only one.the regal has a 4 wire plug the connects to the main harness and does a Y to the fans but is not useful. The cutlass harness is no help. So, whats the best solution?

Most cradles will not. I say craddle b/c then you get the lower mounts ect. My Car is a mut. engine / transmisison is a Regal 2000 cradle stock 93 Upper dog mounts on the core are a 00 century 3.1 the bone is a polished unit from ??? the lower pass side trans is a soild napa the lower drivers side 3.1 new gm unit down pipe is a cut stock l67 the axles (i am lowered) are stock outers and regal inners power steering is 93 gp rack pump and hose is 00 regal harness is a 93 gp / 00-99 monte

re-wiring will be necessary. it will not be plug and play.

true... but a 91 cradle should have the mounts for the 96 3800 mounts. no need to replace unless bad....

technically i think he can use axles for a 99-00 lumina/MC at least at ride stock height.

1) purchase l67 drop out complete from strut to strut, top to bottom. 2) contact me, to contact "teel" to purchase a swap harness ($300-$400) 2a) May need a complete 99-00 Monte Carlo engine harness. 3) Get the outters of your axles and Ill dig up the guy that makes the axles. 4) Get a 255 walbro fuel pump and install it. 5) Plan for a custom exhaust

If any one can how about a write up on swapping a l67 into a 91 lumina coupe.what do I need to do this and things I need to swap over from 3.1 that overheatd and died

96 Regal with the 3800 series 2. what he said!

96 Regal with the 3800 series 2.

IIRC: you have to use the mounts used on a first Gen regal with a 3800.

Ok u made up my mind next question how do I mount the l67 in my lumina the mount aren't even close so I someone has pic of there car that they did the same swap I would like to know how the mounted it in there car pics please

you want to run the engine on OBD 1? and how will the PCM (ecm in your case) know whats going on without a MAF? Honestly, I don't think any such chip exists, or can be made. You should convert to OBD II and use the complete drivetrain from the donor. that is what everyone else does.

no, the subframes are not interchangeable.

so will a subframe for a 3800 II supercharged motor and trans fit in a base model 2 dr lumina? i found its the same body as the first gen z34. what w body had a supercharged 3800 II with a manual if any? i want it as easy as i can, if i can just unbolt a subframe assy(enginge and trans) and direct bolt in to my lumina that wound be cool beans. im doing all the work myself (my brother might help havent asked yet) out side in my driveway with basic hand tools. do i need to cut and weld brackets or what am i facing to do this swap.

ok lets start with some simple questions... 1 - what is your mechanical background/ will you be doing the work ? 2 - what is your budget? 3 - is this your daily driver? 4 - what are your long term goals with the car?

its also amazingly simple... ok, i'll shut up about it as far as wiring goes, i can get diagrams if you need them.

This engine war pissing match will stop right now. No exceptions. I don't see why you are so adverse to swapping around engine harnesses, these are some of the smallest / most simple ones I have worked with. 3400 should bolt right in and you should be able to use your stock harness, you might have to talk to Ben at http://www.60degreev6.com for a custom chip to run it. the 3.4 DOHC, most important question, how willing are you to learn and work on it? if the answer to that is no, then this is not the engine for you. Series II 3800s (NA and SC) can get you good power, but will require wiring to make it work properly, and a different transmission. Many have been down this road and it isan't too hard to get the wiring sorted out so I'm told.

not sure what you mean here...... the recall on the L67 actually replaced the leaking gasket I will definitely agree the the 3800s ran their course and were due to be replaced, but even so ....do you have any better bang for buck engine swap suggestions for the original poster? no, but i never said i did. and i thought the l67 recall involved a "tray" to reroute the oil away from the exhaust? or was that for the N/A version? i just don't like the L67 chant going on here, sounds too much like clubGP... i'll admit, for the power to price ratio, its tough if not impossible to beat... for now. eventually there will be something that will surpass it. me, i like the 60* motors, they're compact, have an exhaust tone that very few don't like, and are very smooth. that's why i'm liking the 3900 and WILL have one eventually. 240/240 stock are good numbers for me. if only i could run it with obd1 and keep them, i'm sure the VVT has at least something to do with those numbers...

Actually, you can, if both are obd1. You will have to move some of the electrical connectors around a bit. In fact, the lq1 CAN run on the 3.1 computer, but it ain't pretty.

thats one thing i LOVE about the 60* v6 over the 90* v6, its IMO, a much smoother engine.

Uh..... Factory wheels suck IMHO, but thanks for the kudos!! For any color change, your looking at around $3500 for a quality job + any parts that cannot be fixed for prep; + gaskets, moldings, etc... Keep in mind that re-painting the car will bring out EVERY ding, dent, flaw, etc... So the $$$ is not in the paint, it's in all the associated labor.