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Showing content with the highest reputation on 04/20/2023 in all areas

  1. GtpKo

    It's begun! - 2nd Gen W-Body 3800 5-speed F23 Swap

    I've wanted to do this swap for about 10 years. Ever since coming across Kuntzie's 5-speed swap thread from back in 2009, and then Noah Brainerd's F40 swap thread from around the same time over on GPF, it's been on my someday-to-do list. Back in around 2013 I think it was, I came across an F40 for something like $150 that was missing 5th gear. I thought it was going to help me finally get started but then family medical issues set that back into the "someday" list. Fast forward to this past summer of 2022, I came across the F23 swaps of Tyler Pitman and Terrell Smith. At the time, I had the same reaction as everyone else and thought "There's no way it could hold, it's rated for..." and so on. Then I found out that those GM ratings are just the max that GM planned on putting it behind, not necessarily what it can actually hold. For example, the F35 is weaker than the F23 as has been learned by the J-Body guys. Internally at Getrag, the F23 was known as the 287, the successor to the 284. So far it's proving it very well could be. Watch this and this. There is more than one way to do this swap, I am taking what these guys have done and trying a couple of changes. Background story aside, here is the current parts list - will update this list as necessary: Some of the model years given are an example and should work for the same model range. F23 from 00-03 Cavalier or Sunfire with the 2200 SFI - not Ecotec as the bellhousing is different. Look for 8th digit of VIN is a 4. From same car get the shifter, full clutch pedal assembly, shifter cables, clutch reservoir, clutch cylinder w/ hydraulic line. EDIT 6/27/2023: 32" long passenger side cv shaft is the best option unless you can manage another option such as mounting a 4T65E output shaft as an intermediate shaft. For the one really long cv axle, get a "front right" passenger side axle from a Jeep Grand Cherokee 1999-2004 4WD Quadra-Drive w/ Vari-Lok. The Selec-Trac w/o Vari-Lok axle may or may not work, since it's an inch shorter and therefore leaves less room for the axle shop to work with. The axle shaft is super long and can be used as bar stock basically for an axle shop to re-spline into the new shaft you'll need. The thicker end is the end to be re-splined as it has enough material to cut down while retaining heat treat strength. This will be the new outboard end that will go into the "star" or hub end. The narrow end of the shaft has the correct splines to go into the tripod end and will be the new inner. You have to have a slot cut for a retaining ring right at the end of the existing splines and widen the existing narrow slot at the end. I believe you'll need the inner from a J-Body car since I think that's where I got my inner from. The splines need to be 1.05" not 1.1". I had a couple of these inners lying around and I thought I had the GP inner but it may have been a Cav one. But that's it for that end. The overall shaft length needs to be exactly 32". I have measured this myself and have found that measurement also quoted from others who have done this before. The inner tripod is j-body and the outer is your stock w-body hub end. Reassemble with appropriate grease, boots, and clamps and you're done. Stock passenger side CV Axle from 2nd gen W-Body such as Buick Regal or Grand Prix GT(Not GTP or Regal GS) - this will be the new driver's side axle. Flywheel - 2 options: 4th-gen (96-02) Camaro RS or Firebird (3.8 w/ 5-speed) flywheel, shaved down to about 0.81" to 0.84" - or about 0.25" shaved down on the clutch surface. Have them check the balance with your auto flexplate's balance if they can. This option should have a better balance if the engine is N/A. Or, and especially if the engine is supercharged, an aluminum flywheel from SPEC. Part # SC94AC. This will run you about $400. Clutch - many options: SPEC, Exedy, off-brand, they all have pressure plate and clutch disk combos that will work. Some better than others. You can go with a cheap risk, or more expensive sure thing, up to you. Look for a combo for a Fiero 2.8 w/ 4-speed. If you go with SPEC(sure thing) then look for a combo under "Conversions" for Fiero 3800 w/ 4-speed. Part# SC771, SC772, SC773H, etc. Important note: if you go with off-brand or Exedy or whatver, you should verify the depth of the pressure plate fingers vs. HTOB range. Also, too thick of a pressure plate may hit the inside of the bellhousing. That's why a stock Camaro pressure plate won't work. I've tried it. For more detail than I can give, search the Fiero forums for HTOB measurements. This thread is useful - Measuring HTOB to determine need for spacer?. Longer F-Body flywheel bolts. GM Part#24505092. Make sure they get the 5/16-18 bolts 0.9" length. I got burned on this once when I received 7/16-20 bolts the first time. Smaller brake booster from around an '02 Monte Carlo. Turbo guys do this often as it's smaller but still effective. I've had this mod for a while. Here is the car I got my stuff from: Here is the easiest part, the brake booster swap. I found the easiest way to remove and install these is to use a long bar on the studs to twist it out instead of struggling with the tab in the back. Since I wanted to include a hand brake, I wanted to keep the shifter to the right a bit instead of centering it. Basically, the same orientation that it originally came with in the Cavalier. But to do that I needed to fab up a new mounting plate. First I used some thin sheet metal to make a template and then welded up the plate from that. I know - my welding sucks, but I'm still learning, getting better. To mount this, I'm taking advantage of the extra slots for these clip-on stud things and modifying one of them to be longer Here is where they go, notice longer stud on the lower right - also holding the e-brake bracket. Next, with the new mounting plate installed - note the narrow nut on the bottom left. Also, you can't see it but sound-dampening rubber foam is underneath the plate. And with shifter installed - now you can see why that nut had to be narrower. There is also some interference from the plate/cables and the rear seat air duct, but I'll sort that out later. Next, modifying the brake pedal assembly. Note - be careful with cutting magnesium alloy, not sure how flammable the magnesium shavings could be. I tried to keep the 2nd bolt hole for where the steering column attaches, but that has to come off too. It's a minor bolt anyway, there are 3 more, 2 of which are the major ones, so it's fine. Steel part that bolts to the firewall and what needs to be cut off Here is approximately how they will be installed. Different than how it looks in this pic, I have the clutch pedal mounted a bit lower than this with its bolt studs even horizontally with the bottom right brake bracket stud. I have a better pic of the firewall later on. I have much more to post, but I'm out of time for now. More to come soon.
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